This blog is intended to be used for the provocation of thought and the discussion of ideas. I believe in harmony among all people and the eradication of indoctrinating religious dogma. All discussion will be peaceable and all are welcome to join in, whether it is a simple comment, question or complex comments and answers. Name calling is not tolerated and circular reasoning will be called out for its idiocy.
Saturday, April 28, 2012
Pro-choice or pro-life?
What makes abortion different from murder and what makes it different from an omelet? Interesting thought on both ends. Thoughts?
First off abortion is not murder. abortion is population control at its most simple base level. If you look at most of the people who want to get an abortion they are either in place financially or psychologically to have children. "so give them up for adoption if you dont want them"-well let me tell you as someone who has worked with juveniles that have been thru that system. they would have been better off if they were aborted. harsh but true. this world is already overpopulated and undereducated, do we really need more people that noone wanted in the first place? do we really need more people who have no sense of family and belonging who more than likely will end up homless or in jail/prison on and off until they are dead? no we dont. as harsh as this is going to sound its true. abaortions are not wrong, fighting against them is wrong. if the religious zealots would just sit back and think about it, in their minds and hearts abortion is ending a life, so that means that it is another soul in heaven. so let them go, let them never have to know the pain and suffering of life in this corrupt world full have hate and biggotry caused by greed and power and fear.
I definitely respect your point of view, but I have worked in that field for a number of years as well. To say that another human being would be better off being aborted is not only an oversimplification, but definitely overgeneralized as well. With that logic, we could outlaw abortion altogether and instead wait until a couple years into life to evaluate a child's environment and state of living and, if unsavory and non-satisfactory, kill it then. At least in this system the child is given a chance to be in a loving and nurturing environment. If the choice is made to be have intercourse unprotected and without a form of birth control, then the same mental faculties can be used to either care for a child or give the child up for adoption. There are millions of people in the world that can't have children and would love to be a primary caregiver to an underprivileged or unwanted child. Your idea that all of these kids will end up homeless or in jail/prison on and off until they are dead is severely misguided, in that there are more functional members of society that have come from dysfunctional environments than there are dysfunctional members of society from the same environments. To kill a population (abortion) because of the ills of a minority of that population (those that "should have been" aborted) is not a good way to do things at all. This line of thinking is what has African-Americans being racially profiled and trod upon for years (a significant number of them are in prisons in comparison to other races). I understand your line of thinking, but to nip a child's chance at being productive and successful in the bud is irresponsible. I am not a religious zealot by any means, but if there is human life (I consider this to be a heartbeat) then that life deserves a chance to be productive. If that life makes the choice on their own, after extensive psychological evaluations or an evaluation of circumstances (Euthanasia), to end their own life, then so be it. They had the chance to be successful and either believe themselves to be a failure or can no longer be successful or useful, so let them make a conscious decision. A fetus with a heartbeat should be allowed to make their own decision on whether they should be living or not. Either this or allow murder of inconvenient children. Both make the same amount of sense.
WOW. Here's my stance. I personally would never get an abortion, not because I think God wouldn't want me to, or that I think it's murder, but because I know I couldn't handle the emotional part. I don't judge those who have had an abortion and I don't believe it should be illegal. I am in the Social Work profession and work with teenagers who are delinquents and who don't have good families. For someone to say that about the kids I work with REALLY offends me. These kids have been through HELL and back, but still survive. I see these kids make progress every single day. They have nothing. They did nothing to deserve nothing, and we did nothing to deserve what we do have. For you to simply say that because someone has had a shitty life that they should have been aborted is simply saying that you're better then them for being born into a nurturing family. Who makes you the one able to judge?
wow i just realized that a whole paragraph got deleted from my post. basically what was left out was that the group homes and "treatment" facilities that exist today do not care about the kids as much as they do getting money from the government. and if they are going to simply exploit these children then they are better off being aborted. i would say that 80-90-%of staff at most facilities for children are overworked and underpaid/trained. most are only there for a paycheck. i know that Nate and myself cared for the kids we worked with. i still think about some of them and on occasion run into some and it makes their day when they see someone that cared about them. i now work at a prison and have seen 5 or 6 of the kids from my previous employer in there and it breaks my heart to run into them. i am sorry if i came off as a heartless nazi but that is not me. and btw i did not come from a nurturing home and i should have ended up in foster care or a facility but i fell through the cracks, that is one reason why i worked with the kids as long as i did-so they knew someone cared about them-but in the end i had to choose my kids over them so i moved on to a job that supports my family more. abortion is really nothing more than the first step in population control and that is something that this world needs now more than ever. anyone can have a child and if it gets taken away and put in foster or shelter care they just have another one and another one and another. at some point we have to step in and say no you cant have kids. there are some "rights" that some people just arent deserving of, and being a parent should be a privelidge not a right.
my question to you and anyone else is what do we do with the people who are born and can have no productive influence in life? what do we do with rapist murderers and child molesters? obviously prison is NOT working for society.
Well, I'm not sure that we can really study and gather empirical evidence as to whether someone can have a productive and influential life. I think that these people should be allowed to make their own decisions based on their own situations, so long as that choice is hurting no one else and, in the case of self-destruction, is being done after significant psychological evaluation and psychiatric help. To say that the people can't have a productive life is very short-sighted, as there are many people that did not succeed in life until very late in life and, were that life to be stopped prematurely, many important things could have been lost. As for prison and rapists, murderers and child molesters, I believe in the goodness of man. These people should be helped while in prison and cared for while in there. This is not to say that prison will not be a punishment, as it most definitely will be, just a humane one that prepares inmates to re-enter society. The big problem with prison is that it is merely a fall-back for law enforcement. There are far too many people in prison for petty offenses and meaningless infractions (I'm looking at you marijuana possessors and dealers) to the point that it is overcrowded, leaving the inmates with resources that need divided amongst far too many people. The prison system is not flawed theoretically, it is just overcrowded and used improperly. If less people were in prison, then the people in there could be cared for and receive the help necessary to be successful. Would everyone be successful in a system such as this? Of course not. In fact it would still be under 50% (this is very optimistic) success rate, but the resources would be utilized properly and violent murderers that cannot be helped would be locked up inside a prison to pay for their crimes. This is the reason prison is not working for society. Too many people receiving the same punishment for vastly different crimes. Say what you will about sentence length, but the fact is that small-time pot dealers are thrown into the same prison that murderers and rapists are put into because there is nowhere else to put them. If less people were put in prison, monetary resources could be utilized elsewhere, like community-based organizations and rehab centers to help lesser criminals.
First off abortion is not murder. abortion is population control at its most simple base level. If you look at most of the people who want to get an abortion they are either in place financially or psychologically to have children. "so give them up for adoption if you dont want them"-well let me tell you as someone who has worked with juveniles that have been thru that system. they would have been better off if they were aborted. harsh but true. this world is already overpopulated and undereducated, do we really need more people that noone wanted in the first place? do we really need more people who have no sense of family and belonging who more than likely will end up homless or in jail/prison on and off until they are dead? no we dont. as harsh as this is going to sound its true. abaortions are not wrong, fighting against them is wrong. if the religious zealots would just sit back and think about it, in their minds and hearts abortion is ending a life, so that means that it is another soul in heaven. so let them go, let them never have to know the pain and suffering of life in this corrupt world full have hate and biggotry caused by greed and power and fear.
ReplyDeleteI definitely respect your point of view, but I have worked in that field for a number of years as well. To say that another human being would be better off being aborted is not only an oversimplification, but definitely overgeneralized as well. With that logic, we could outlaw abortion altogether and instead wait until a couple years into life to evaluate a child's environment and state of living and, if unsavory and non-satisfactory, kill it then. At least in this system the child is given a chance to be in a loving and nurturing environment. If the choice is made to be have intercourse unprotected and without a form of birth control, then the same mental faculties can be used to either care for a child or give the child up for adoption. There are millions of people in the world that can't have children and would love to be a primary caregiver to an underprivileged or unwanted child. Your idea that all of these kids will end up homeless or in jail/prison on and off until they are dead is severely misguided, in that there are more functional members of society that have come from dysfunctional environments than there are dysfunctional members of society from the same environments. To kill a population (abortion) because of the ills of a minority of that population (those that "should have been" aborted) is not a good way to do things at all. This line of thinking is what has African-Americans being racially profiled and trod upon for years (a significant number of them are in prisons in comparison to other races). I understand your line of thinking, but to nip a child's chance at being productive and successful in the bud is irresponsible. I am not a religious zealot by any means, but if there is human life (I consider this to be a heartbeat) then that life deserves a chance to be productive. If that life makes the choice on their own, after extensive psychological evaluations or an evaluation of circumstances (Euthanasia), to end their own life, then so be it. They had the chance to be successful and either believe themselves to be a failure or can no longer be successful or useful, so let them make a conscious decision. A fetus with a heartbeat should be allowed to make their own decision on whether they should be living or not. Either this or allow murder of inconvenient children. Both make the same amount of sense.
ReplyDeleteWOW. Here's my stance. I personally would never get an abortion, not because I think God wouldn't want me to, or that I think it's murder, but because I know I couldn't handle the emotional part. I don't judge those who have had an abortion and I don't believe it should be illegal. I am in the Social Work profession and work with teenagers who are delinquents and who don't have good families. For someone to say that about the kids I work with REALLY offends me. These kids have been through HELL and back, but still survive. I see these kids make progress every single day. They have nothing. They did nothing to deserve nothing, and we did nothing to deserve what we do have. For you to simply say that because someone has had a shitty life that they should have been aborted is simply saying that you're better then them for being born into a nurturing family. Who makes you the one able to judge?
ReplyDeletewow i just realized that a whole paragraph got deleted from my post. basically what was left out was that the group homes and "treatment" facilities that exist today do not care about the kids as much as they do getting money from the government. and if they are going to simply exploit these children then they are better off being aborted. i would say that 80-90-%of staff at most facilities for children are overworked and underpaid/trained. most are only there for a paycheck. i know that Nate and myself cared for the kids we worked with. i still think about some of them and on occasion run into some and it makes their day when they see someone that cared about them. i now work at a prison and have seen 5 or 6 of the kids from my previous employer in there and it breaks my heart to run into them. i am sorry if i came off as a heartless nazi but that is not me. and btw i did not come from a nurturing home and i should have ended up in foster care or a facility but i fell through the cracks, that is one reason why i worked with the kids as long as i did-so they knew someone cared about them-but in the end i had to choose my kids over them so i moved on to a job that supports my family more. abortion is really nothing more than the first step in population control and that is something that this world needs now more than ever. anyone can have a child and if it gets taken away and put in foster or shelter care they just have another one and another one and another. at some point we have to step in and say no you cant have kids. there are some "rights" that some people just arent deserving of, and being a parent should be a privelidge not a right.
ReplyDeletemy question to you and anyone else is what do we do with the people who are born and can have no productive influence in life? what do we do with rapist murderers and child molesters? obviously prison is NOT working for society.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm not sure that we can really study and gather empirical evidence as to whether someone can have a productive and influential life. I think that these people should be allowed to make their own decisions based on their own situations, so long as that choice is hurting no one else and, in the case of self-destruction, is being done after significant psychological evaluation and psychiatric help. To say that the people can't have a productive life is very short-sighted, as there are many people that did not succeed in life until very late in life and, were that life to be stopped prematurely, many important things could have been lost. As for prison and rapists, murderers and child molesters, I believe in the goodness of man. These people should be helped while in prison and cared for while in there. This is not to say that prison will not be a punishment, as it most definitely will be, just a humane one that prepares inmates to re-enter society. The big problem with prison is that it is merely a fall-back for law enforcement. There are far too many people in prison for petty offenses and meaningless infractions (I'm looking at you marijuana possessors and dealers) to the point that it is overcrowded, leaving the inmates with resources that need divided amongst far too many people. The prison system is not flawed theoretically, it is just overcrowded and used improperly. If less people were in prison, then the people in there could be cared for and receive the help necessary to be successful. Would everyone be successful in a system such as this? Of course not. In fact it would still be under 50% (this is very optimistic) success rate, but the resources would be utilized properly and violent murderers that cannot be helped would be locked up inside a prison to pay for their crimes. This is the reason prison is not working for society. Too many people receiving the same punishment for vastly different crimes. Say what you will about sentence length, but the fact is that small-time pot dealers are thrown into the same prison that murderers and rapists are put into because there is nowhere else to put them. If less people were put in prison, monetary resources could be utilized elsewhere, like community-based organizations and rehab centers to help lesser criminals.
ReplyDelete